Despite the hosepipe ban being in place within the Anglian Water region, the heavy rain of recent days has left many cricket grounds sodden and wet.
We took this picture prior to the Lincs League meeting on Wednesday at Rase Park, the home of Market Rasen CC. Ducks waddling across the outfield is not a good omen!
We understand the Yorkshire League has already cancelled scheduled games tomorrow and re-arranged them en bloc for Saturday, September 15.
Lincs League chairman Bob Welton has reminded clubs that games cannot be called off before 10am on a match day. And if the visiting team is unhappy with the cancellation, it has the right to travel.
If things get as far as the teams being duly assembled on the ground, it's in the Laws of Cricket that umpires are the sole judges of whether conditions are fit for play. Not all players/captains may be aware of that fact.
If your club does decide to call off a match and the opposition is agreeable when the call comes through, please inform your Umpires' Association (Grimsby/Scunthorpe/Lincoln) as soon as possible so they can do their best to inform match officials before they get in their cars and set off for the ground.
Clubs are also reminded that they need to inform the Lincs League of cancellations due to weather with a message left on 01652 655134. It's also a requirement for the home team to enter the No Result (5pts each) on the Play Cricket website before the deadline, though that's not a Saturday morning requirement.
Would it not make sense for the Lincs League to follow suit.
ReplyDeleteEspecially that 1 team (Alford) has a fixture on both days.
Why the whole of the league cant start on the same day (bar 1, due to numbers in the Prem) is beyond me and in no way am I slating the Fixture Sec as the role is a thankless task.
Maybe that needs looking at at the next AGM, either up it to 12 or reduce back to 10.
If that was the case then rearranged fixtures maybe able to come into force alot easier
Good point Gaz. Were going to potentially miss out on points from two games where others are only missing 1 or even none in some cases. Hope this doesnt cost us come the end of the season! Anyway games havent been called off yet!
ReplyDeleteMight please you both to know there's not a game being played this afternoon due to the inclement weather , I wonder if the 4 Premier clubs due to play today will be moaning that the weather has robbed them of points and the other 7 now have a perceived advantage by not having a fixture today . Come on boys it's a long season and there are plenty of points at stake . Your clubs must have fixture secretaries and could,if they had wished, re-arranged fixtures to ensure a game today if needed. This would have been within our rules as fixtures are circulated after the AGM giving your clubs plenty of opportunity to alter things . It is beyond my comprehension that you guys can make these ill-informed comments maybe , like charity , it should begin at home.
ReplyDeleteIn Alfords case bob this is very different. A team that could be struggling this year has missed out on two games to pick up on points, where everybody else has only missed one.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the league should take a leaf out of the yorkshire leagues book. We all knew games wouldnt be played this week, as we know that the week after the season is usually fit to play cricket. Lets reschedule this round for then.
Also, weve been charitable accepting Broughtons request to play tomorro at late notice, due to a players wedding. So I hope if the game gets called off the league will accept our request to reschedule the fixture.
Or like Gaz said 10 points from a possible 40 for us is a distinct disadvantage compared to teams like Scunthorpe who arent playing until next week.
Andrew ,hasn't your club altered fixtures to suit Weddings etc .CAKE AND EAT IT MAY SEEM APPROPRIATE .Clubs can change fixtures but only by agreement etc etc , if these circumstances were working in your favour I doubt that leaves would be taken out of any books . You know what the due process is as far as rules are concerned and you have 5 months to get your proposals in , I look forward with baited breath to reading them .
DeleteI see where you are coming from Andrew as it could leave at a clear disadvantage. We were scheduled to play today When fixtures came out but altered it immediately due to there being a rugby game scheduled for the same day (which am sure as you guys experienced last year isn't ideal) we changed it for later in the year. I hope you can get a game in tomorrow so you won't be at to much of a disadvantage
ReplyDeleteSnowy
To be fair Andy you accepted our request to play on sunday which was very much appreciated - but we also accepted the scunthorpe town request not to play on the saturday. Also Alford were not shy as i recall in asking the fixture secretary to work around several dates that were not viable for you to play on.
ReplyDeleteYorkshire League have a number of benefits to make that rule change work. There is an even number of teams for a start. But also there is no leeway for the movement of fixtures. The clubs play every saturday, every bank holiday and then have to fit 3 league matches on sundays. Being the most senior league in our area they can pick and choose when they play, they are not flexible - and as there is a full programme every week moving a block of fixtures is a very easy task.
Would it be that easy in Lincs League - probably not. If all games for yesterday were called off and rearranged the disadvantage would be Scunthorpe Towns and Broughtons and whoever else was'nt due to play yesterday. If the sunday match was rearranged too that would put Alford at a double advantage. What happens if it rains next week do we re arrange them too?? THat will be unfair on the 11th team that has no game.
Dont mistake me i agree that it is very harsh on u...
One think i would also say is that the rule book does not allow rescheduling of fixtures. Therefore i think the managment committee would have no choice other than to reject a request to rearrange. I cant speak for them all but im sure that would happen. There is nothing wrong however with any clubs putting in place a rule change for next year. As long as a well thought through proposal is put through it will clearly get some good air time. It will be difficult to find a good proposal given an uneven number of teams.
With the weather been like it has been over the last 3 or 4 years why do we still persist in trying to start the season in the 3rd week of April and end at the Start of September.
ReplyDeleteLast year Cricket could have been played well into October!!
The league should consider moving the season up by 2 weeks and having the start of the season the may day weekend and ending the last week in September, much less chance of yet another April washout.
As I recall gentlemen the League completed a full programme on the first week-end of last season .You guys are quite obviously very much younger than myself and don't understand how these things work or how they have developed over the years and therefore have a jaundiced or even biased view .
ReplyDeleteTo give you an insight into the hole you are digging for yourselves I will give you a short History lesson : The League used to allow fixture re-arrangement for games lost to the weather provided the new date was given to League within 24 hrs of cancellation .THEN TRADITIONAL SATURDAY LEAGUES BECAME SUNDAY LEAGUES . Clubs/players wanted this instead of the more traditional Sunday Friendly it was then only a short step for them to propose NO fixtures could be re-arranged after a set date so as to ensure club fixture commitments could be met on both days .Will you all start crying if you started later and finished later and the weather was poor then COME ON BOYS START TO CONSIDER THE BIG PICTURE INSTEAD OF YOUR BLINKERED VIEW . I look forward to hearing from you all but please be men PUT YOUR NAMES TO YOUR MESSAGES DON'T HIDE IN ANONYMITY THAT IS THE COWARDS WAY .
I don't normally comment on comments but will make an exception.
ReplyDelete1) On the opening Saturday of last season the weather was very warm and dry and everyone seemed very pleased we made an early start to the campaign. It was also dry the year before.
2) You cannot compare the Yorkshire League (one division of first teams not sharing facilities with other sports) with a five division set-up like ours (including 2nds, 3rds, 4ths). Saturday homes games in mid-September are "out" for many clubs in the Lincs League where other sports are played. There's also the issue of team-raising in mid-September, with football, rugby, hockey commitments for players who enjoy playing/watching more than one sport. In our league this could result in teams winning the title/promotion, or being relegated, on the basis of late season walkover wins, due to opponents being unable to raise teams.
3) As a player who first appeared in the Lincs League in 1976, I always liked starting in early May (as we used to) and finishing the first week in September. However, fixtures were much less complicated to fit in back then, as we had only 1st and 2nd X1s. Also, all divisions played full fixture lists on Bank Holidays(May and August) which some would see as the downside of being able to start later (early May) and finish during the first week of September. It never seemed to bother us back then, playing on bank holidays, but today many players you talk to are not in favour (3 games in a weekend, strife from the Mrs/girlfriend, etc).
4) Those of us who have been around a long time can remember what used to happen towards the end of the season at a time when re-arrangement of cancelled fixtures was permitted. Great ill-feeling was generated by teams desperate to play (needing points to go up or stave off relegation) which found others wouldn't take them in re-arranged Sunday matches. When some clubs reluctantly agreed, it was common for them to field a makeshift line-up on a Sunday.
5) The growth of Sunday league cricket (N Lindsey, Lincoln, E Lindsey) means far fewer openings than we once had for re-arranged Lincs League fixtures.
6) There are fewer grounds than there were, with many village and town venues disappearing. How many remain in the Grimsby area compared with years ago, for example? Sharing is fine, as is having 3/4/5 teams, but considerably reduces the flexibility for re-arrangements and playing games in mid-September.
7) The ECB sets out its recommended starting Saturday for each season. And as far as I'm aware, the Lincs League has never started ahead of what's recommended by the governing body.
Reading between the lines of the comments already made here, it's clear that people passionate about our sport are miserable about missing out on their Lincs League matches yesterday (Saturday). That's to their credit. Yes, there's the option of some clubs bringing a rule change proposal forward for the AGM in October, if that's what they want. It will then be up to clubs to decide by a majority vote. However, bringing back re-arrangements is not a decision to be taken lightly.
Would an alternative be the possibility of making the bank holiday mondays free dates open for re-arraging fixtures called off due to the weather?
ReplyDeleteWould mean you dont extend the season and you keep Sundays for Sunday cricket.
Brett - Outcasts CC
Brett's idea is a good one.
ReplyDeleteWhen ALL fixtures in one league have been washed out during a weekend we should have the chance to re-arrange for bank holiday Mondays.
That way no-one gains an unfair advantage.
Someone propose this for next year.
Nothing worse than not having a game when it's good weather
Russ
Outcasts CC
why not just make all teams play on a Saturday, we have five free Saturday's this season which can't be right? that way you could possibly keep the bank holiday Monday's or a specified Saturday at the end of a season available to rearrage if we get long spells of bad weather. the condition our outfield is in at the moment and with the forecast poor for the foreseable future it's not beyond reason that we may not be able to play a home game for two or three weeks.
DeleteIan that's a perfectly good suggestion are you going to tell those clubs who have more than two sides that they must pull the other teams out . What would Scunthorpe Town say if Hibaldstow had enough good players to run a 2nd team and Scunthorpe could no longer enjoy the use of their ground . I would suggest that they would revert to playing at Heslam Park and re-arrange some games for Sundays . Rather defeats the argument the League is a vehicle to provide organised competition not create organised chaos as your suggestions would ultimately lead to ,but please persuade your club to adopt your points of view and submit rule changes to reflect your personal views .
DeleteRuss just think about what you've suggested . If that happens in the last 3 weekends of the season do we play them on the next Bank Holiday . CRICKET ON XMAS DAY OR BOXING DAY WHAT A GREAT THOUGHT !!!
DeleteWith our wonderful weather there is always the possibility of a washout on any given day or weekend, because of this there will always be a team or teams affected, some will be happy others not. To rearrange games as stated above would be a nightmare and as for the idea of bank holidays, what if the washed out weekend was after these, a team or teams would still be disadvantaged. The choice as I see it is either nominate two dates at the end of the season (one to be a Saturday, one a Sunday, hopefully this would help in relation to people having other commitments and give the opportunity to secure a venue)or to up the points lost for a cancelled game to whatever the league average is (probably 7 or 8, this again may cause problems to some). As a member of a team relegated when weather intervened on the last game of last season by 1 point, although not ideal, I think the present system should remain.
ReplyDeleteMick
Laportes CC
Just a reminder that if any CLUBS want to put forward rule change proposals they should be sent, by email, to Andrew Richley, the Lincs League General Sec. Many of us have good ideas and then, weeks later forget about them and miss the deadline. As this topic has prompted much informed debate, and some interesting views, it would be a shame if it failed to lead to some debate at a league meeting.
ReplyDeleteJust remember guys when you are making these suggestions that both sides have to agree to re-arranging fixtures . Usually all are in agreement in November/December/January and therefore there are no instances of massive disagreements , however imagine the scenario where a strong club believes that re-arranging a rained off fixture for a Bank Holiday may give them an easy points haul against a much weaker club but the weaker club refuses THEN WHAT ? What about games rained off after the last free Bank Holiday a club may miss out on the Championship or be relegated because the game can't be played . Who makes the rulings if the clubs can't agree ? Whilst you may think your ideas have some merit in my opinion they are non-starters because they would create far too many problems . You all seem to forget that it is the clubs that have put todays rules in place not me or the rest of the committee ,it was the clubs who voted on NO BANK HOLIDAY MONDAY games because they felt it was too much to expect players to commit to 3 games in 3 days something that in my early years we did without problem,maybe you should be telling the Sunday Leagues to leave Bank Holiday Sundays free then our League could start 2 weeks later and avoid this early season bad weather that you say is common but in the previous two seasons we've enjoyed better weather than some week-ends in June/July/ August . There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the present system except in your eyes ,maybe you should consider your suggestions more carefully before entering your diatribes on public view .
ReplyDeleteIf any such realistic rule was put forward it would leave glen sands with no other option than to refuse fixture swapping requirments for a start which would seriously peev a lot of clubs off, eg we cannot play on Broughton Show Weekend, Rugby takes precedence over Cricket at Heslam Park and so on and there the rule starts to break down. The rules are an annoyance until you or your team is on the end of them. July 16th our first XI were without a fixture - it rained heavily and no lincs league cricket was played so we benefited - yet May Day Bank Holiday Monday - our second team due to play caistor 3rds were rained off which meant they couldnt play against the team that finished bottom of the league. Its the way the cookie crumbles
ReplyDeleteWell stated Neil , the facts are that nobody bleats till they think they are on the wrong end of things then they moan . They don't speak out when the boot's on someone else's foot
ReplyDeleteI find those comments rather harsh Bob, especially from somebody in such a high role as yourself.
ReplyDeleteAll Russ and I was suggesting was if A FULL SET OF FIXTURES IN A LEAGUE ARE CALLED OFF ON A SATURDAY then those fixtures move to the next available bank holliday. If there isnt a bank holiday available then so be it the games are a wash out but at least it gives us the chance to play 2 extra games that may have been called off. It isnt some way of giving clubs a chance to re-arrange fixutres in their favour as it wont be in their hands.
All it would take is for the fixture secretary to send a email to the clubs stating that no balls were bowled in that league so the games will move to the next avaialable Monday, Glen already sends a email out to all the clubs on a Saturday so it wouldnt be any extra work for him.
You have heard above from the stamford homes lads that they got relegated due to rained off games, surely as league chairman bob you dont want to see that happening?
or are we just going to get another dig from you for voicing our opinion?
Brett,given that a game was played in the Premier League and one in Division Two , would the only games re-scheduled under your idea be in the Divisions where no games were played ? What about the games in the two divisions that were lost to the weather . Hardly seems equitable to me and would probably cause a lot of problems towards the seasons end particularly if promotion/relegation issues could be effected . I would be very interested to see your views !
DeleteWell said Brett,
ReplyDeleteagree on all counts, especially the last and this is maybe why people leave anonymous comments.
Hope you all don't get a horse's head in your beds, have you not seen the Bobfather.......
Sorry guys I'm out of Horses Heads , but if you really think about it your suggestions are unworkable and to the best of my knowledge no team has ever been relegated on games rained off.I haven't the stats on rained off games last year but I would be surprised if any club suffered that much more than the rest of the clubs in the same division .Wouldn't it be harsh , given the geography of our League if say Horncastle manage to play a game and the rest of the division are based in Grimsby or Scunthorpe areas and cancelled so no wholesale move to a Bank Holiday can be allowed and a team gets relegated by one point. I've known games played at Brumby Hall and called off at Heslam Park.You must also take into account that it was the Member clubs that decided on the present situation NOT ME or the COMMITTEE.We used to have a full fixture list on EVERY BANK HOLIDAY but because of Sunday Leagues and family calls the Membership decided NOT to have fixtures on those days .Why not ask your club Fixture Secretary to change your first couple of fixtures to Bank Holiday Mondays then it would get you the games on dates you crave and avoid problems if the first two weeks are washed out.I'm not Digging at any of you but you must realise that it's taken 50 years to progress this League and ALL rules are made and passed at AGM's by the clubs NOT the officers ,we have to administer them. Rule changes have to be submitted in the proper manner ,discussed and voted on with the majority winning.I'm all for change if that is what the majority want but the Officers serve as Volunteers lets not make their tasks harder than they already are, for instance compiling a suitable fixture list given ALL the requirements of clubs and players .We have to accommodate clubs with 3 or 4 teams ,grounds not available for dates due to football ,rugby ,carnivals not to mention weddings.I understand your frustration but you too must understand the many problems we have to face, I believe that we must accept the situation as it is and not have Knee-jerk reactions born out of disappointment.I look forward to seeing your rule change proposals at the end of the season though because debate is how we progress .
ReplyDeleteI dont know why there has been so many comments on this matter iv always found that games tend to get played in bright sunshine for the 1st couple of weeks before the rain comes
DeleteI know,that's been my experience as well , but it seems that because fixtures made/changed this week-end meant that Alford could have played twice when no other games were to be held was perceived by some to be advantageous to them or detrimental to their clubs .As no one can predict the weather(even those who are paid to do it),or compile a full fixture list given all the vagaries of our clubs I can't understand why all these comments have been made , but I feel that ,as Chairman,I should try and explain our position .It seems, however, that in doing so I have been misunderstood .I hope that as the weather improves so will understanding and maybe those who think I'm likely to leave Horses Heads around will see that all I'm doing is trying to state the way things happen and not always as I would choose .There are some who must think I am a dictator but we on the Committee can only apply the rules made by the clubs democratically at AGM.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is entitled to an opinion and it is great that Nigel provides this forum for such healthy debate. My opinion is that cricket is about so much more than promotion, relegation, winning or loosing. I met my partner through my cricket club and as a result now have a fantastic 3 year old daughter. I know people that have got married having been brought together through their involvement with a particular club. What is dissapointing about not playing due to weather is that the club does not get to engage in the social interaction that so often shapes our lives. I am sure we all have made very good life long friends through our shared love of cricket and being involved in the game. Yes we all want to play the game, win and succeeed and sadly sometimes the weather gets in the way of that. I personally dont understand these major concerns about a few rained off games however as stated we all are entitled to an opinion and we should be grateful that we live in a society where we are free to voice those opinions. If as a democratic league the clubs can agree on some options that may allow more games to be played to compensate for bad weather then lets explore them however lets do it in the proper way at a league meeting without resorting to immature comments about 'horses heads' etc.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments Matt , seems to have put the matter on the back-burner for now !
ReplyDeleteWhat about the issue of you (Bob) making a killing on selling all the matchballs to the clubs for years now
ReplyDeleteSurly not honest bob
DeleteThe big problem is not the cancellations but the general lack of cricket. With Hykeham 1st X1 dropping out of the First division and losing two games to the weather our 3rd X1 at Cleethorpes have lost over a nearly a quarter of their fixtures without even bowling a ball in anger. With this weekend already looking a washout their next fixture won't be until the middle of May. 18 games a season is nowhere near enough.
ReplyDeleteAckers
I understand your dilemma Ackers but part of the problem(other than the weather)is the success your club has enjoyed in player numbers and therefore team numbers.If each club only had two teams and only played in our League fixtures for 12 team divisions would be so much easier to accommodate.However we only have a limited number of week-ends and with clubs requesting no Sunday/Bank Holiday fixtures and the problems of fitting fixtures around Lincolnshire ECB and Yorkshire League,Weddings,Fetes,Caravan rallies etc there is no alternative to the situation we find ourselves in.This is the worst start, weather wise,I have known in all the years I have played in the League,but it is the same for every club and we'll just have to get on with playing when the weather permits.The Hykeham situation is very unfortunate but it would seem inevitable that some players will "jump ship" during the close season as you know only too well with some of your lads moving to pastures new.If your club hadn't been so numerically strong you could have found yourselves in the same "BOAT"
ReplyDeleteI have to say i find it wierd that 15 years ago we had 2.30pm starts for 90 overs cricket and 22 fixtures a season and we cant manage now.... But i completely take the point Bob just made about Leagues, Weddings etc, because we would be affected on that score. To what extent is 11 teams a league viable. Effectively that gives every club 2 spare weekends a season.
ReplyDeleteNeil , the spare weeks seem to be part of all the moans .Would you have been about 1o years old 15 years ago ? Todays circumstances are SO very different though , e.g. Full Bank Holiday fixture lists , clubs only having 1 or 2 teams in the League . It's the clubs who have made these decisions which they are now bleating about . Maybe each club should have a serious players meeting (no drink)and thrash out some proposals for rule changes instead of letting one or two older guys do it all and then the players moan .Maybe Hykeham's plight is partly due to lack of player involvement over a number of years. Why not have the meetings this week-end when, because of the weather ,it is unlikely that any games will be played . I'd nearly bet that less than 50% of any clubs players would turn up and very few of those would have a sensible set of rule changes !!!!!!
DeleteWe, at Scunthorpe Town, do benefit from flexible fixtures due to rugby issues but I still fail to see what all the fuss is about. English weather has always been like this and, as the saying goes, them's the breaks. Alford may have actually ended up benefitting by getting 20 points last Sunday but who knows?
ReplyDeleteHaving a 'reserve day' seems a nonsense to me as Clubs could be using that day to have other activities on their ground or players could arrange other things with their long suffering families on BH Mondays.
Let's just get on with it and enjoy the cricket once it starts. And thanks again to all those Clubs that help out by agreeing to rearrangements when asked.
Del Crabb STCC
Quite right Del , frustrating as our weather might be it's very difficult to cover all options . People must realize that the League didn't arrange the Sunday game at Alford it was a re-arranged fixture agreed by the two clubs in December/January in accordance with League rules . A reserve day MUST be a non-starter given the make up of our League and multi-use grounds where clubs have a narrow time-span because other sports dictate . Suggesting wholesale moving of fixtures,as some have suggested would be difficult as a glance at this years fixtures shows the Premier League having a full programme on both Bank Holidays and fixtures already re-arranged in other divisions on those dates too .I think we have a situation where some guys have expressed their opinions out of frustration at not playing because of the weather but have not looked at the overall picture. However it's been a talking point , unfortunately it became a personal issue against me(horses heads/bobfather)which I found quite amusing really as it illustrated to me how little these guys know about me or how the League operates .Maybe they should take on the roles of Fixture Secretary within their own clubs and have their eyes opened or the blinkers removed to use a horsey analogy .
ReplyDelete