Andy Langford, Messingham CC 1st XI captain, has been in touch with Lincs Cricket Latest and given detailed reasons for his club declining the invitation to rejoin the Lincs ECB League, having won the championship of the Lincs League's top section this summer. He says...
Following your story regarding our good season, someone one has commented about us not accepting promotion. It has nothing to do with being a "big fish in a small pond" - it's about what is best for our club as a whole. The decision was not taken lightly and the whole club had their say in the matter. We pride ourselves on being a village club - of the 34 players used by the club in senior cricket this year, 29 of them either live in the village or have grown up playing for our youth teams. We have a very small catchment area for players and we are not interested in paying out money to mercenaries. We are committed to running a profitable, sustainable club.
Entering the ECB league takes a massive amount of commitment from the players. There is a huge amount of travelling involved, with at least four trips taking at least 90 minutes. Many of our players have either weekend work commitments, young families or university/college/school exams to study for. I realise that every club has these issues, but given our geographical position within the county, every away game is an 11-hour day and this requires a huge amount of dedication, not just by the 11 1st team players, but it affects the club as a whole, as we can go months without the 1st & 2nd XI meeting after a game, which we found to be divisive and caused poor team spirit.
With regard to your statement that we "ran away with the league", I think you'll find the league table is very misleading. We got extremely lucky with the weather and were fortunate to have only one match rained off (although we managed 93 overs in this match, scoring 7 bonus points). We also had several very close games which could easily have gone either way (6 games won by fewer than 35 runs and one by 1 wicket).
The simple fact at present is that Messingham, as a club, are not strong enough to compete within the ECB league. We battled hard for our last 5 seasons with little to no reward; I think the best we managed was 8th out of 12!
Add to this, currently within the club we currently have only four players aged between 25 and 35. This tells you our players are either at the end of their careers or are young and inexperienced. What we have found this season is that playing in the Lincs Prem gives our young players a platform to perform in a high standard of cricket within a friendly, competitive environment.
I just want to make it clear to people our reasoning behind rejecting promotion.
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An honest and justified decision I think in the light of how financially orientated the ECB Premier league has become.
ReplyDeletePlayers in the ECB are also being told that if they want to play for Lincolnshire, they should go to BBH. Surely this is not beneficial for our county league?
Louth have already lost a key player to this type of approach and there is a real conflict of interest here.
Surely the issue isnt Messingham but the actual ECB League
ReplyDeletean elitist league for the clubs in the area with the most money, the league should be part of the lincs league structure
I would have more sympathy if the Messingham rep at the LL meeting had not been so vocal about how clubs should be able to play 1st team players in 2nd team fixtures "to get back in form". Messingham may have decided that they enjoy cricket more in a standard in which they can comfortably win - but it is important that clubs remember that those of us playing in the lower divisions also want to enjoy our Saturdays - and top clubs turning out their top players in the bottom divisions spoils our competition and can hardly be said to be a good way to regain form. How does a prem batsman gain form against us "pie chuckers" as we've so often been described - or how does the ECB bowler get any practice rolling over lower league ferrets? We all know it's about points, not form.
ReplyDeleteLouth should of replied if you want a bat and a bowl on a saturday you will stop where you are. If Lincs CCC want that players services they will get selected wherever they play!!!! Otherwise its Lincolnshires loss. As for the rule regarding players playing in 2nd XI fixtures i believe the rule is a grey area. My belief is the rule has become tactical and that it should only be used in the event of blatant bending of the spirit of cricket. In that case it should only be enforced if a higher tesam within the club isnt playing that day. Its hard enough to field 2 teams on a weekend without worrying about potential points deductions if a certain player can only play at home...... its easy for those clubs with only one team to pick to criticise ..... the rule is occasionally been used to mask over a teams poor performance too.......
ReplyDeleteNeil Simpson (Broughton CC)
Captain cash........?
ReplyDeleteNeil, you know that's not entirely true.
ReplyDeleteIf tail end Charlie from the seconds can't make the away trip to Alford, is he really going to get a game at home for the firsts - of course not. It only works the other way around because Billy big-time from the firsts is better than the guy he replaces in the twos.
If one of our players can't make the 1:30 start time, he either doesn't get a game or we start with 10 and hope we bat first.
If it really is a case of making up the numbers, why put BBT in at number 3? STCC played Ben Brumby a few times in their 2nds, but he kept wicket and batted at 9 - fair play to them - I've no problem with that. But putting the first team opener in to bat at 3 in the 2nds, or opening the bowling with the 1sts first change bowler - that's not making up numbers, it's strengthening the side.
Jon (Hibaldstow)
You make a fair point it was strengthening the second team, but most importantly it was to the detriment of our first team, a team i had to captain with six players missing including matty, we were bowled out for 41, against Hykeham which for a club who harboured ambitions to return to the premier was slightly embarrasing. I agree in principle with the rule. But you try telling a player with a new born baby that if he helps us out by coming straight from work to play cricket that he has to bat 8 or 9 and still pay £6 match fee!!!! I appreciate your point, but surely this rule is protect clubs being stung in a totally unfair contest! I hardly think that was an unfair contest. The following day 3 Kelsey first teamers played against us on a sunday. Should we push to introduce that rule in the NLL as well...... I was once told by yourself that without the Kelsey lads you would fail to function as a sunday team. Whats the difference????? Neil (Broughton)
ReplyDeleteMessingham should be given financial incentives to join the Lincs ecb in order for them to compete and meet the extra costs incurred in that division
ReplyDeleteLincolnshire, as a cricketing county, is lacking in its approach to league diplomacy and government. As a league the ECB should promote further development of local talent that could go on to play in the Lincolnshire county side. It is a shame to see players TOLD to move from one club to another to further their opportunites, I have seen a lot of this in the years I have been observing cricket.
ReplyDeleteBack on topic, however, this year in the Lincolnshire Prem. many games were called off during games, before games and so on as they are each year. Midway through the season South Kelsey looked to be in a good position but with games being called off and other teams playing look at them now. It's a credit to Messingham and other clubs that have been in the ECB league that no longer have the player numbers or the money that they initially managed to stay in the money driven league in the first place.
The same cricket club supposedly telling these players to move to them, readily drop them if the first team match is called off.........http://broughton.play-cricket.com/scoreboard/scorecard.asp?id=10472946 here is an example..
ReplyDeleteIf Lincolnshire cricket is to benefit as a whole then i feel that it has to have a county wide premier division. The best need to be playing the best. For me personally that means Cleethorpes and Appleby Frodingham playing in that competition, as they both have the commitment to sustain cricket at that level. Although im sure both clubs would hate the thought of their first teams being in a Lincolnshire based league i feel its the only way. I certainly appreciate Messinghams situation. No club wants to go through a season struggling in a competition. However Hartsholme have to be considered in all this. Messinghams understandable refusal to be promoted has therefore committed Hartsholme to another year in the league, they have no choice in this matter.
ReplyDeleteThe question i have is that it seems at the AGM it was acceppted that a '2 up, 2 down' policy would be used across ALL leagues?
ReplyDeleteIF this is the case, then why is there an argument or chance for clubs to decline the chance to go into the ECB league. i agree with the last comment about Hartsholme having to go through another year, even though they are very similar to messingham.
surely if 2 up 2 down is acceppeted in all leagues, why does this argument exist? it works in all other leagues (particularly lower leagues) why be different in the ECB? afterall fairs fair....
A couple of points.
ReplyDeleteThe ECB league is an entirely different entity to the lincolnshire league, and as such has its own officials, rules etc. One of these rules is a "invitational" promotion policy- If you have a problem with the system- don't just sit there behind your computer screen complaining about Messingham, they are just following the rules of the league and looking after the best interests of their club (and who can blame them). Blame the people running the Lincs ECB.
Also, from what I hear, Hartsholme are delighted to be staying in the ECB league and to dispute your claim that they, as a club "are very similar to Messingham"- how do you know this? Are you on the committees of both clubs?? Certainly, their situation geographically is far different from that of Messingham.
Finally, let us not forget that there is another feeder league within the county, whose champions have also refused the offer of entry in Billingborough- who have repeatedly done so.
It's easy for people to sit and say Messingham shouldn't have a choice in the matter when I'm sure many of these people have never been in a situtation where you have travelled for over 4hours in a day and lost by nearly 300runs on several occasions. This is all while paying for the privilage of handling such a bruising defeat.
ReplyDeleteFor guys who turn up to train on a Wednesday, play on a Saturday for shear enjoyment and the 'banter' that comes with playing with some of their mates, losing by over 150runs against semi-professionals every week is in no interest to any person who has commented on this blog to date I am sure. So why should us lads of Messingham have to do this because we are not welcome in the league, which was more competitive than the final table suggested.
As for the matter of fielding players of first team ability in second team fixtures, I can speak from my experience and many of my fellow mates at Messingham. We can only appear for half the season due to academic commitments and a settled first team would mean turning out for the second team, even if more than good enough for the first team. Should we then not be allowed to simply play the game we love because we are 'too good' for so called 'pie-chuckers?' Doesn't really seem a very fair solution to me.
am i right in saying billingborough were refused entry due to junior teams etc?? as far as i know they are as keen as anyone to go into the ecb.
ReplyDeleteif you dont want to go into ecb then why get an overseas player in and gove more local players a game
ReplyDeleteWould I be right to say Messingham have one overseas player and 21 "local players" turning out on a Saturday?
ReplyDeleteWould I also be right to say over half the teams in the League have overseas players? So why single out Messingham for fielding an overseas?
well if you didnt want to win the leagu eand gain promotion and better yourself an overseas is pointless
ReplyDeleteOverseas players not only help increase the performance of the team but aide the development of junior/youth players. I will be right in saying the most if not all overseas coach within the club and possibly the schools. Its amazing what an accent can do when a they talk to a young player, most get in their heads that they are famous and tend to listen and take on board a little more. So to me an overseas is and investment in the club not pointless
ReplyDelete